I tried to export as Word, and that works (using the 1.0.4 beta version)
Creating a bibliography
@timg I believe we've got this sorted out for a 1.0.5 which we'll make available later tonight or tomorrow as a beta, in part based on the document you sent us, so thank you very much! The issue is with the citation formatting component choking on certain unanticipated characters. The improvements made in 1.0.5 should aid with both the in-editor and exporting issues discussed above.
@lunk And why couldn't the Manuscripts app do this automatically? It has the information, so it's only a question of moving the left parenthesis a few steps to the right, so it ends up to the left of the year instead of to the left of the first author.
Because there are over 7,000 citation styles to consider. The in-text citation representation of author suppression is not uniform across them and cannot be described with the kind of heuristic you describe above. Given a CSL formatted citation style and the citation formatter component we use, this is the best we can do (which is just the same as other citation formatter tools do to my understanding as well – as noted earlier, please correct if I am wrong).
this is the best we can do (which is just the same as other citation formatter tools do to my understanding as well – as noted earlier, please correct if I am wrong).
But you want to be better than everyone else, don't you?
It's all really a question of where you put the left parenthesis. If you have several references supporting a statement, you would need to have them removed, exept for the first and last reference, right?
In the options list there could be a number of alternative in the future. Handling of references is one of the key points of the app, right?
@lunk But you want to be better than everyone else, don't you?
Hah, sure, but we also try to pick our technical battles On this particular issue I must concede defeat because we simply would introduce bugs if we tried to be too clever here (that parenthesis is used for instance is really not the case always). I'm happy to revisit this at a later date but right now our hands are tied by the capabilities of the citeproc.js citation formatter that Manuscripts uses under the hood.
I am using the 1.04 beta and I get no page numbers in the popup citation dialogue (I imported my citations, but not from Papers3).
I also get an error when trying to update : "An error occurred in retrieving update information. Please try again later."
I have screen grabs that I can't post here because I don't know how (!)
Thank you...I am very excited about Manuscripts because it seems so natural to use.
@rarles the feature is available presently as a beta version (1.0.5 and upwards). If you want to already try it out, you can get to it from the Preferences > Updates > Inform me … > Beta Updates.
Re: update problems, the update checking service experienced a moment of downtime earlier today, should be behaving now.
This post is deleted!
Page numbers are fixed in the 1.06 release! THANK YOU!
Firstly, let me say I'm really excited to see this app improving, thank you!
Secondly, I would like to ask if there is any way to edit the bibliography and the citations manually. I am messing with sources in Chinese, and I do not wish to see the names in Chinese characters in the in-text references, but I still need them in the final bibliography. When using Word, I simply deleted them manually every time I inserted a reference, but with Manuscripts this does not seem to be possible. And it looks as I am not able to edit the bibliography either. Is there any solution to this problem?
@Mar89 would it be an option to use a citation style that uses for instance numbers instead of the author names? We're not really keen on breaking the link between the citations and the bibliography, as that leads to bad things (also in the Word workflow you describe) when you then want to reformat the references to another citation style for instance.
Speaking of which, changing the citation style to one that includes numeric references sounds like it could help you. Manuscripts uses citation styles described in the CSL format, and you can preview different kind of styles for instance with the editor over here: http://editor.citationstyles.org/about .
@mz2 That would work, but I basically always have to use names. Also, when the bibliography is formatted automatically, it writes -for instance- the titles of books in italics, which is correct for any Western language, but it is not used for Chinese characters. I know that formatting the citations manually brings, of course, problems with the automatic change of citation style, but it is really the only way I have found so far to cope with these references. Maybe the non-latin languages could use an option that disables this automatic synch
@Mar89 ah, I am being a bit slow today: you can just use the "year only" modifier in those cases and represent the name yourself in the text before the year (for instance if you use their Latin representation, you can just type that in before the year). You'll find instructions for creating year-only citations from here: http://support.manuscriptsapp.com/topic/29/how-do-i-edit-references-and-present-them-in-author-or-year-only-form
Another option you of course have is representing Chinese names in the Latin spelling in both the text and the bibliography (i.e. editing the names in the bibliography data to such form, either in the Papers or in the Manuscripts end). But the above suggestion sounds closer to what you were after.
@mz2 Thank you, this would be perfect, but it seems that I cannot type anything inside the brackets. Honestly I don't know if it's only my version, but if only I could do that I would have more or less solved my problem.
@Mar89 could you describe precisely what you would like to type? It does still sound rather unusual to want to describe an author name differently in the in-text citation than what is described in the bibliography (how does the citation help in finding the relevant bibliography entry in that case?) – would modifying the bibliography to use a Latin spelling of the names not solve it? This is how all academic literature written in English that I have read and written has handled this problem
@mz2 For instance:
The conference held in X at X university brought significant contributions to the field (Rao Pengzi 2007, 255).
Rao Pengzi 饶芃子. 2007. *title of the book in latin transcription in italics" "title in Chinese characters not in italics" "Translation in English not in italics" City, publisher, etc.
This is the standard for this kind of papers. The names in Chinese characters are not normally put in the in-text references, but you cannot avoid to put them in the bibliography (too many names are spelled in the same ways in latin, but in different ways in Chinese). Also, italics for Chinese characters is never used, but it is used for the latin transcription of the same title, which cannot be left alone because it would not make any sense. I know this is complicated and almost impossible to achieve automatically, that is why I usually fix the references manually. If I change the citation style to year only, this is what I get: The conference held in X at X university brought significant contributions to the field (2007, 255). This could work if I could then add the name Rao Pengzi inside the brackets, but I can't. And still the problem with the bibliography remains. Is it any clearer?
@Mar89 amazing, always find it fascinating how complicated citing schemes us scholars create for ourselves! I can't imagine any tool supporting building that automatically indeed. The concept of having different titles for a bibliography entry, with different formatting rules depending on the language, is almost certainly not something supported by any citation tool and quite frankly pretty funny a formatting requirement on part of whoever invented it (why not then just not italicise either or neither of the titles the very least, as then you could include both titles as part of a title field and suddenly most tools would help you rather than work against you)!
The title part I cannot promise we would make adaptations for, but for the in-text citations perhaps the cleanest solution to this would be to add a custom in-text citation. This would also have some other legitimate uses (for instance supporting modifiers we would otherwise not support). For now the best solution is to fix this up in the exported file that you send out). Sorry…
@mz2 Yes, it's crazy complicated. Anyway, I can imagine this is not a feasible adjustment, and frankly the idea to fix the exported file does not sound particularly troublesome, given the fact that eventually I would have to export it anyway I guess. I still have faith that your app will free me from the continuous crashes of Word on Mac So, thank you!
@Mar89 actually, you're in luck. I've just implemented support for prefixing and suffixing citations for the upcoming 1.0.11 update (enters beta tonight), as the need to "write into" a citation came up from several different contexts.
Here's a made up example citation: